Yitzy Hammer - Web3 & Crypto after October 7th | WCP29

In this episode of the Web3 Creators Podcast, I’m excited to reconnect after more than a year! We’re back, and for a very special reason—I’m joined by my good friend and co-founder, Yitzy Hammer, a well-known crypto lawyer here in Israel. We dive deep into his personal journey, from his early life in New Jersey to becoming a prominent figure in the Israeli tech and crypto space.

This episode isn’t just about Web3; it's about friendship, resilience, and what it takes to build in a fast-evolving industry.

You won’t want to miss his insights on navigating the legal challenges of emerging tech, and how his unique experiences shape his approach to innovation.

Tune in to hear Yitzy’s story and how it can inspire your own Web3 journey!

Chapters

00:00
Introduction and Background
18:20
Why Yitzy Hammer is Drawn to the Crypto Sector
25:22
Challenges of Navigating the Legal Landscape in Crypto
26:59
Web3 Regulations in the US
29:25
The US Elections and the Future of Crypto
35:51
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict and its impact
41:24
Challenges for Israeli firms in the global tech industry
51:38
The power of free-flowing conversations
58:14
An optimistic outlook for the future

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Transcript

Yitzy Hammer (00:00)
One. Ladies and gentlemen.

H3rnan (00:04)
Creators, we're back! After over a year, the Web3 Creators podcast is live again, once again. And it's not my chance. I have a very good friend here with me, bringing my support and also a very strong reason of why we're back. So here's my friend, Itsy Hamer.

He is a great Web3 crypto lawyer. The whole industry over here in Israel knows him. He's also my co -founder and head of legal at Soundwork, which I really hope that will pay big for him in some time. Now that we're in the depths of the despair in Web3. And he's also a very dear friend and a very good confidant. He's helping me all around and...

Yitzy Hammer (00:47)
Amen.

H3rnan (01:00)
I am looking forward to hearing his story because he also runs a podcast named Beyond the Code, which you guys are invited to check out, listen to the episodes. There's also one of my episodes and I also have good friend Joseph who is on the last episode. Go check him out. Great podcast, great content. He's also a great host. So I'm very, very, very happy and excited to be back and to have you here. Itzy, how are doing?

Yitzy Hammer (01:28)
Thank you so much for that warm introduction. Like I'm not usually on the other side of the table. So this is kind of fun. I'm not used to this, you know?

H3rnan (01:35)
Well, it's about time that the spotlight is on you, my friend. More than deserved. So let's start by that. Let's tell me. So let's start by your story. Itzy, have like native English. So let's start by where are from? What brought you to Israel? Let's start from the beginning. us all the way there.

Yitzy Hammer (01:40)
Thank you, thank you.

Okay, first of all, I love this question. And since I'm typically on the other side, on the asking side, and I have like in my head something that I expect my listener, my, my, my guests to answer, and they never really meet up to my expectations, I'm going to give you like the full answer the way I'd want somebody else to answer it. Okay. When I ask people to like deep dive into their background, I'm always expecting like a deep dive, like where were you born? What was your favorite color in preschool? You know, like

I like to go really deep because I feel like it's a good way to get to know somebody. And people are always like, I went to university here and then I have my first job there and my last job is here. And then it's like three seconds, but like, really want to know you know what I mean? So you'll forgive me if I'm gonna like, if I'm gonna give you like a long and boring answer now. But I

H3rnan (02:50)
Rumble on my friend, it's about time our audience gets to know you.

Yitzy Hammer (02:55)
All right, so I grew up in the States, in New Jersey, and moved to Israel with my family when I was 14. My parents were, are, like very big Zionists. were, from as early as I can remember, constantly were speaking about how we're gonna move to Israel one day. I had never been to Israel. I came here for the first time when I was 11. But I think at least twice in my childhood,

My parents had like sold all our furniture and were in the process of selling our house and we were like gonna move to Israel. And then for one reason or another, it didn't materialize. then finally at the age of 11, I came here for the first time. A lot of my family was already living here and you know, really just fell in love with the place. And then when I was 14, like just a few months after my Bar Mitzvah,

My parents put us all on a plane, me and my two brothers, and brought us here to Israel. And it's been the most incredible experience of my life growing up here and starting a family here. And there really isn't anywhere in the world I would want to live. I love traveling. I love seeing the world. But I always say my favorite thing about going other places is that it reminds me what a great life I have here.

And people always think, I mean, you know more than anybody else, you also came out to Israel and you share a lot of the challenges of living here. People always think we live in some crazy war zone. But actually, even like in...

H3rnan (04:29)
Yes. People in Mexico City asked me, know, Israel, aren't you afraid? know, I'm living in Mexico City, right? With every traffic like you have to close your windows. And they're like, you're not afraid to live in Israel? And I'm like, man, I'm more afraid going to the Tepito and to the center.

Yitzy Hammer (04:36)
You

Right? So people here, like they really like know how to live life. Like you go out like on the worst of days and the coffee shops are full, the beaches are full. Like we're in the first week of September. Kids went back to school on Sunday and my wife's at the beach now. And, you know, I just went out and grabbed myself lunch and like the coffee shops are packed. So it's...

H3rnan (05:17)
Did you go to like a youth movement in the States?

Yitzy Hammer (05:21)
Yeah, so one of the things that spurred our aliyah were my family's involvement in B Akiva. Yeah, from like the age of four, we went every summer to a B Akiva affiliated summer camp up in the mountains in Pennsylvania.

H3rnan (05:29)
NERKIVA

Nice.

Yitzy Hammer (05:45)
I mean, my parents worked there, my mom worked there, my dad used to come up on weekends and it was like such an incredible place to live, to grow up, rather.

H3rnan (05:52)
I was in the Ashomer HaTzair, which is like the left, the other side of the spectrum in terms of youth movements. And then I was, but my like my, more adult and teen life as a madrig and as a guide was in the Abonim Dor, which is still kind of the kibbutz style, more, of the, yes.

Yitzy Hammer (05:58)
But we ended up in the same place, so it doesn't really matter.

In Mexico, they were active there. Wow.

H3rnan (06:19)
That was my connection to the Jewish community because we're not religious. And that was what inspired eventually my coming to Israel as well.

Yitzy Hammer (06:29)
that's what I love also. like, you don't need to be religious to be a Zionist. I mean, like, obviously I relate to it in a certain, you know, a big part of my connection with the country is like from a religious aspect, but there's so many depths and levels to it. Anyway.

H3rnan (06:48)
I think being a Jew is very particular, Because it's not just a religion, it's like a religion, but it's also a people and a country. People say that Israel is something new that they invented in 1948 with Zionism, but actually, almost like two out of three prayers are praying to Jerusalem and to Israel.

Yitzy Hammer (06:56)
and a culture.

Yeah.

talk about Jerusalem? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Anyways, so came here when I was 14. We're very involved in B 'nei Akiva, both over in the States and also when we came here, we moved to like a small settlement close to, mean, settlement sounds like it's out in the boondocks, like it's, you know, 20 minutes from Tel Aviv, 20 minutes from Jerusalem, right next to a, what was then a burgeoning city of Medin, where I now live.

And it was like, it was so great growing up like in a a yeshuv, you know, like we had come from like city life in the States, or it wasn't so much city life, it was like the suburbs. But I just remember like that the feeling of freedom here where you could just like run around like, it's a quite literally, I went to high school with no shoes almost every day was very unconstrained. I didn't learn much. But it was good fun.

H3rnan (07:48)
You're sure, yeah.

You were barefooted just running around.

Yitzy Hammer (08:13)
And it was really, it was a great place to grow up. And then went to the army. In my army service, I was part of a combat engineering unit. After the army married my wife, who had been my girlfriend for six years, and we're now married.

H3rnan (08:33)
Was she your high school sweetheart?

Yitzy Hammer (08:35)
I guess we started going out like in 11th grade and you know we've been together ever since. Have four beautiful children, oldest is 14 and live here in Wadene. Been working. I do, I do. I'm 37. He's just about 14. He's 13. But he tells everybody he's 14.

H3rnan (08:49)
Wait, you have a 14 year old kid? How old are you man?

Right, right, right. makes sense, yeah. I supposed you would have it at 20 something because you do look 30 something at most.

Yitzy Hammer (09:07)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and I've been a lawyer for the past like decade. did my internship in 2015. So it's coming up 10 years now.

H3rnan (09:19)
What made you decide like, I want to study law. Is it like time to get serious? Let's get a, or is it the Jewish, you you have to be lawyer, doctor, or an engineer.

Yitzy Hammer (09:30)
It's it's very cliche. had a my second grade teacher, I was, you know, constantly arguing with her. And she's always like, you're gonna be a lawyer one day. I don't even know what a lawyer was. But then like, I was a big bookworm when I was a kid, and I read tons of John Gershwin books. And I was like, Okay, this is cool. I want to be a lawyer. But then like the lawyer that I envisioned was like, real lawyer, you know, who like goes to courtrooms and sues big pharma and makes billions of dollars. And then

H3rnan (09:47)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yitzy Hammer (09:59)
And then when I moved to Israel and went to law school here, I realized that while I'm in full control of both languages, you need to really be in control of a language to be able to get up in a court and...

H3rnan (10:12)
I do think legal language is like another language, right? Because just as I speak to other people in technological jargon, which for me is like second nature. when I see people like, you know, either open their eyes, like, what is this guy talking about? Legal jargon for me is the same. a lot of times it reads beautifully like, you know, like Chinese. I mean, you understand the context, but...

Yitzy Hammer (10:17)
for sure.

H3rnan (10:41)
You really don't need to get into that.

Yitzy Hammer (10:41)
Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, I still very much, you know, I'm a commercial lawyer. do like, you know, the majority of my career was with working with high tech companies doing corporate deals and drafting commercial agreements, but 99 % of it is in English. So like getting up in a courtroom as a litigator and like arguing with a judge.

it just wasn't in the cards for me, at least at the time. And so I kind of found myself migrating to this like, sub sector of law, which in Israel is like a very, very big, you know, the high tech world here is very vibrant, there's a lot of work and, and it's all in English. So it that kind of became my area of expertise and worked with 10 companies for years and years and years and then in like,

H3rnan (11:32)
Right.

Yitzy Hammer (11:38)
2016 started seeing a lot of like ICOs and

H3rnan (11:44)
What was your first breakthrough? Because I understand that you were working with already a large law firm. I don't know exactly which one was it, but I do remember you already were working with a big law firm before you got into crypto, right?

Yitzy Hammer (12:03)
So I did my internship in a firm called Gornitsky, which is I think like the third or fourth largest firm in Israel. But I wasn't doing any crypto work there. I was doing like mergers and acquisitions and capital markets. And then after Gornitsky, I worked in Barnea, which is also quite a large firm. And that's where I started getting exposed to crypto. They had been working with a lot of like, what do call them binary options?

companies. And then when binary options became like a scam and illegal, a lot of those entrepreneurs in binary options migrated over to Forex, then crypto. And so like we kind of migrated together with them. And I remember at the time, I was working in the firm and they put on like this like crypto event. And I was like, I had heard of Bitcoin. When I was in law school, I wrote like a tax seminar.

H3rnan (12:30)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yitzy Hammer (12:55)
about Bitcoin taxation. was like, I think like 100 bucks per Bitcoin at the time. But I wasn't like, whatever, like I wasn't tech savvy enough to know how to buy Bitcoin. But then we did, my firm did this event and I was like, crypto, this is cool. And then started working with a lot of crypto companies, mainly on the ICO side of things. And then afterwards doing like a lot of commercial work. And then when I moved to Herzog, which is the largest firm in Israel,

H3rnan (13:01)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Yitzy Hammer (13:24)
I was doing even more crypto work. Again, not exclusively. And at some point, I decided that I was going to leave and wanted to do something on my own.

H3rnan (13:32)
What was that point?

Yitzy Hammer (13:35)
Law firms are very hierarchical and you know I was moving up in the hierarchy but there's like a

It's just a lot of politics in law firms and I just didn't... Yeah, and was also...

H3rnan (13:48)
Like a corporate ladder, but it's like a... Like the series there, Suits? You watched that series?

Yitzy Hammer (13:54)
Some parts of it are like suits. I guess it's like suits in the sense that like a lot of people I was working for were like bat crazy. And, you know, there's good, there's good sides to like working with crazy people because they have like incredible work ethic and, and you can really learn a lot. But like at some point I felt that my mental health was taking a toll. And also I kind of realized that like, even though they're paying you well as a salaried employee,

can make a lot more money on your own. And so decided to go out on my own and ultimately joined up with two other guys who were with me in Herzog. And they were part of the financial regulation department, which really did almost exclusively crypto and decided to start this practice DLT law, which focuses predominantly on the crypto sector. And that's what we've been doing.

H3rnan (14:48)
And Herzog was OK with that because there are a lot of anti -poaching stuff. that's good.

Yitzy Hammer (14:52)
I mean, we didn't ask their permission. No, it wasn't poaching. We didn't ask their permission. we,

H3rnan (14:58)
Well, started, well, you quit it, but you quit it and started it or was it on the side until it took off?

Yitzy Hammer (15:03)
No, it wasn't on this side. We quit and started and it took some time for it to evolve. First it was me and then was me and another guy and now the three of us finally came together and I'm bullish on what we're trying to build here. We're investing heavily in building the practice in

H3rnan (15:11)
of course.

I'm both human.

Yitzy Hammer (15:32)
and getting exposure around what we do and reach new clientele. We're going to be in Singapore in a week and a half.

H3rnan (15:38)
Tell me why crypto? Because you were exposed to a lot of tech, a lot of high tech, and there's a lot of innovation going on in Israel. know medtech startups and retail, there's, of course, cybersecurity. There are so many narratives that are very prominent in the Israel tech space. I don't think that Israel is quite yet the dominant force in crypto as it is in other types of technological industries.

something made you go, okay, this is, this is an industry worth going all in on. So what was that? You know, that aha moment for you.

Yitzy Hammer (16:15)
Excellent question. So I wouldn't say that I'm all in on crypto per se. I mean, it depends who you ask. If you ask my partners, they'll tell you that they're crypto lawyers. I don't define myself as a crypto lawyer. No, no, no, I'm not even talking about distributed ledger technology. I like to refer to myself as an emerging tech lawyer, okay?

H3rnan (16:30)
Let's call it distributed ledger technology if you want to be...

All right, right.

Yitzy Hammer (16:41)
And crypto is in emerging tech. And the reason that I like emerging tech as opposed to, and you correctly pointed out, there are so many sub -sectors in the tech world. You FemTech and WellTech and AdTech and Agrotech and...

H3rnan (16:44)
Mm

Yeah, now with AI, I think that that ball's coming in hot as well, right?

Yitzy Hammer (16:58)
Well, so that's exactly where it is. I find that it's most interesting and I find that our services are most prudent in those areas where the tech has advanced faster than the regulators and the lawmakers can accommodate to it. So people want to say that crypto and AI, that there's no regulation around these products. And that's not true. There is regulation.

There are existing regulatory frameworks that can be adapted and are being adapted to suit these technologies, but they're not quite there yet. And I think that being a player on the field, regulatory frameworks and while lawmakers struggle to wrap their head around how to address these technologies is like a really fun game to play.

And that's from two sides. Number one, I enjoy working. Well, you know what? In a sense, it really does suck for entrepreneurs. It's a little bit unfair. I enjoy both working with lawmakers and regulators. You know, I've had some on my podcast and I very much enjoy meeting them at dinner parties and crypto events and talking to them about like how

H3rnan (17:58)
It's fun unless you're getting sued by the SEC or...

Yitzy Hammer (18:25)
what steps they're taking to prepare to really address these technologies as we become more more integrated into our day -to -day lives. And I also enjoy working with the entrepreneurs on the other side, which is kind of like dancing around and through the regulators and the lawmakers' steps towards writing these rules. So to the extent that there are no rules or that the rules haven't yet been properly adopted, there's like...

finagling space around them. so it's a lot of fun. Like I always say, like as soon as this gets boring, I'm out, man. But thank God to date, I haven't yet been bored. People are always like, lawyers are so boring. I love what I do. Like I really do. Like I love working with entrepreneurs and investors and I love being in spaces that are constantly evolving. X is like a constant pulse.

H3rnan (19:02)
Yeah.

Well, you got to be a bit of a rebel to also be trying to develop in this industry. And I think also in a professional sense, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no lawyer, but when you're developing in different types of technologies, like you're building a new social network, or if you're just building a new tech company for fintech, there's kind of a standardized process.

But then with crypto and Web3, what I've noticed is that because there is this sense of that the world is out to get you or like the governments of some regulations, specifically we've all seen how the kind of, I don't want to get into politics, but let's just pin it on Gary Gensler for now. And what is anti -crypto stance, right? There's a very strong sense since I remember, like since 2017, which is when I got in crypto.

that there was this sense that there's no way this is happening. The government is going to shut it down. There's no way that the centralized incumbents are going to allow for a decentralized alternative to proliferate and become the go -to source for anything, either money with Bitcoin or data structures with Ethereum or whatever decentralized social

Yitzy Hammer (20:31)
Sure.

H3rnan (20:39)
of finance or, or supply chain, whatever it is that you're making. So I'm thinking that because there is a very strong sense of, they're kind of against us or, or there's a very also heightened sense that the importance of the legal proceedings, which in other industries is more of a, a process, you know, you sign this, you go through this, declare that, and, and you got to.

So how was your experience? that really the case or is it just like any other industry?

Yitzy Hammer (21:15)
No, it is very much the case. I think you as an entrepreneur who's been struggling to build in this space can attest to the fact that like in almost no other tech sector are you required to lay down so much cash in advance in order just to get like a kosher stamp from a lawyer or a compliance advisor to tell you how you can operate your

blockchain protocol or or launch your token in a compliant in a compliant manner. You need so many things you need, you know, inappropriate structure and you need tax advice, need regulatory advice and you need a legal opinion, any legal opinion under Singapore law and Dubai law and under US law. you know, and you and even to understand where you need a legal opinion, you need a legal opinion. mean, just to understand. I mean, I'm exaggerating, obviously, but I mean, like, just to know the rules.

H3rnan (21:46)
legal opinion right you need that for

You need legal advice just to get your legal advisor right.

Yitzy Hammer (22:12)
Well, and because the regulators, or at least the regulators in the US have been so wanton in their enforcement actions and their inability to provide clear guidelines, you hear all these nasty stories about startups and entrepreneurs who had massive fines from the SEC or found themselves facing subpoenas.

And you say to yourself like, damn, like, I'm reading the news, it doesn't make sense why they even, you know, got slapped with these orders and these fines. And I don't want to find myself in that position. So like, either you don't build because it's too expensive, or you go out and you raise money for what? To like have to pay your lawyer to tell you that you could take the first three steps in the direction of building your protocol? It's really hard. It's very challenging. And so like, you need a lot more initial runway just to get started.

H3rnan (22:59)
It is.

Mm

Yitzy Hammer (23:07)
And it's difficult. It's difficult. I don't remember it existing like this in any other industry.

H3rnan (23:14)
Yeah, no, for sure. And there's also this sense, due to the actions of, particularly the US government, which is where certainly most regulations then look up to or try to mimic, especially here in Israel. And then I'm trying to, what about if you would put yourself in the other side? If you would be trying to regulate Web3 and crypto in the US?

My question always is, there, if their motives is to protect retail investors, which is like, you know, the crypto is full with scams and rampants. Why not try to chase after those like obvious scams, rock pools, know, coins that go to zero projects. And why would you go after, for example, Coinbase or Ripple? Like there's an argument there, but, you know,

Why chase after Uniswap? It's like...

Yitzy Hammer (24:16)
Dude, you're preaching to the choir. I ask myself the same questions all the time. I ask them to virtually anybody who's working in the regulatory market in the US, whether on the advisory side or on the policymaking side, it makes absolutely no sense. And even worse, you have a mandate as a regulator to protect the consumer in the US from making poor decisions.

And in order to do that, you need to vet companies that are looking to launch products or to raise money within the United States that are targeting US consumers. you need to either and you need to give them guidelines as to how they need to act, what they need to do. And if you don't do that, then you're not doing your job. And if you, you know, choose people at random and decide to prosecute them because you didn't tell them how they're supposed to act and they

went and they tried to make an informed decision based on the council that they received, then you're doubly not doing your job because you could have prevented that situation to begin with. And even more so, like you say, when there are so many huge scams day after day after day that they're not even going after and they're not even trying to regulate. So it beats me. Honestly, I can't understand. Let's just hope that

H3rnan (25:42)
Do you feel that's going to change now with the elections being so hot? It's pretty clear that if you're building in Web3, interested in or even investing in or holding crypto, seems like it has been very, very much politicized. So it's been very clear that...

Yitzy Hammer (25:43)
And I'm

That was my next sentence.

Yeah.

H3rnan (26:09)
You know, you're voting for Trump, then Trump's going to be this like crypto champion. I don't know how far he's going to take it actually if he does win. But the other side has been brutal. Like it's being very clear that that Elizabeth Warren is like out to get us. you know, they try to paint us as this whole crypto billionaires stuff and turn to like get after us.

Yitzy Hammer (26:33)
Yeah.

I'm very scared about the US elections. I can think of little else over the last few months. It's funny because you'd think that with everything that we have going on here and yeah, of course, and me being in military reserve duty here that I'd be more focused on what's going on here. But there's obviously a very direct correlation between the election results in the United States and everything that's going to happen here over the next few months in the north and the south.

H3rnan (26:46)
Are you allowed to vote?

nice.

Yitzy Hammer (27:04)
So it is something that is very much occupying my time and my thoughts. I'm terrified what will happen if Harris -Waltz win. think, you know, and when I do vote in US elections, I try to the greatest extent possible to do it and like with my American hat on, I don't vote in the sense of what I think will be good for Israel.

I try and vote in the sense of what I think will be good for the United States because otherwise I don't think it's fair to use an absentee ballot.

H3rnan (27:33)
And even if you're voting in your sense of what's best for the United States, you still have to look at your own point of view. So who's representing me? In my case, if I'm Jewish, American, living in Israel, you know.

Yitzy Hammer (27:44)
For sure, so I try and think about, for sure, for sure, I try and think about what would be good for American Jewry, but also just for the American economy and American people as a whole. I mean, you see what's going on in terms of the threat to free speech and then like.

H3rnan (28:02)
I do. following, maybe no less than you. mean, it's not just any other country.

Yitzy Hammer (28:08)
Yeah, and like the mainstream media, it's insane. It's insane. I'm terrified at a democratic win. while I am voting for Trump and I think that he will generally be better for the Jewish people in America and for Israel, and also for the crypto community, he's a very unstable guy.

and he could say one thing and do something else. you know, it's hard to predict what actually will happen. I do still think that it'll be better for crypto, better for Israel, better for the Jewish people, and better for America as a whole.

H3rnan (28:36)
Yes.

No, that's a clear statement. I'm totally with you on that. And I was always supportive of the Democratic Party before this elections. Even when Biden won, it was like a relief. Like, we're going back to normalcy. That was what I was thinking. I'm talking to you like three, what is it? Three years ago?

Yitzy Hammer (28:54)
But obviously not financial advice, not legal advice, not political advice.

H3rnan (29:20)
I still was unaware of the downslide and the decadence and this whole governmental apparatus that the Democrats now are embodying. I think I was unaware of how brutal their censorship of free speech, their sense of free will to transaction, the freeing of people to like...

do with themselves, whatever they want the freedom to think because they're, you know, the control of the media. And that is becoming very, very, very scary. Not to mention that, you know, whatever the discussion is in, in, in Twitter regarding Israel on October 7th, and there is a lot of discussion. We have a very, very concrete, results that we can observe, right? When Trump was president.

whatever you can say about him. And I do think he's very narcissistic. And still we got the Abrahamic courts, not because the Trump is an expert in the Middle East, but he knew how to appoint Jared Kushner, which at the time seemed like a very neopatistic decision. It ended up with the Abrahamic courts. He ended up thinking outside the box.

Yitzy Hammer (30:25)
Yeah.

And I can't think of anything else that's had a more direct effect on economics in the Middle East and even just like a sense of peace in the Middle East than the Abraham records. Like the ability to fly in and out of Dubai and I was in Dubai a few months ago for my first time. We were there together.

H3rnan (30:47)
Yes.

Me too.

Yes, token 2049.

Yitzy Hammer (31:00)
Previously, I was terrified of the notion of like going to like an Arab country like Dubai and like I felt so comfortable there. There wasn't once I mean aside from the fact that there was like a insane flood and like I thought that my you know hotel was gonna collapse and I was gonna get swallowed up into the ground like from a security perspective I felt very much at home and welcome there and You know, that's that could be attributed directly to Trump and Netanyahu It's it's it's a tremendous victory

H3rnan (31:13)
Likewise.

Yes. Yes. No, no. And also the United Arab Emirates, the Saudi Arabia and all these countries that are willing to open up their doors and that are not seeking this forever wars. I think, and the contrast, what we got after three years of the Democrats slash Biden administration was October 7th. And I do think that

Yitzy Hammer (31:38)
Dude, that's the direction to peace.

H3rnan (31:55)
the fact of lifting the sanctions on Iran, trying to appease them and caving to the, is it that you want? just, let's sign this agreement and come to the table. And this kind of pretty pleased attitude towards the tyrants and the dictators and the Islamists in the Middle East, that has done so much damage. And that's trying to look at it objectively because we're still hurting.

Yitzy Hammer (32:01)
for sure.

so much damage.

H3rnan (32:24)
right from October 7th and this brutal war that's been going on ever since. So I don't see, I'm truly afraid as well of what would happen if now, you know, the Islamists would be emboldened by another four years of democratic rule and this appeasement policies of, you know.

Yitzy Hammer (32:48)
It would be so bad. It terrifies me. It really terrifies me.

H3rnan (32:52)
And the other side of the coin is it's also quite worrying because as much as Trump wants to support us and is willing to court us, he could also go, you know, well, we're not spending any more money or anything on Israel. Let them fend for themselves.

Yitzy Hammer (33:07)
I mean, it would be a less worse scenario than having somebody who's so outwardly hostile towards Israel and the Jewish people. Yeah, I mean, this isn't, we're on like a tech podcast, but like we're talking politics, so it's hard for me to divorce myself from. I find that the,

H3rnan (33:13)
For sure.

Yes.

Yitzy Hammer (33:30)
what know, what Elon Musk calls the woke mind virus to be a tremendous threat to, you know, to society and to the free world as funny as it sounds. But I just think that like the balance of right and wrong has completely been offset. I mean, I think that like, you look at like the fact that people don't know what a woman is and what a man is just like, I don't know, it's I find it.

H3rnan (33:33)
Yeah.

Yitzy Hammer (33:57)
I find it to be something that's poisoning a lot of other areas, be it sports, be it politics, be it academia. It's also something that I find very scary and I think that the Democratic Party has been pushing that narrative very, very, very heavily.

H3rnan (34:06)
Mm

And I think most of the policies that I see at least like, for example, RFK Jr run with, are all type of like, you know, it's been such a polluted society due to this kind of profit, profit first, human second type of policy from this corporation. So you can trace back.

the man, woman, gendered affirmation, pronoun, using type of all this type of narrative around, you you can define yourself as whatever sex or as a dog if you wanted at age five. That is, I think that's empowering the specific industry, which is a sex operation industry. So as well as the food industry, which is causing this epidemic in health in young children.

Yitzy Hammer (35:00)
For sure.

H3rnan (35:10)
And you can connect it with big pharma, which is now, you know, profiteering for the fact that they have a permanent customer at a very young age that is going to pay them for medication for the rest of his life. And that's why the life expectancy in the U S which is the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world has gone down with other countries like in Europe or here has gone up. And then you connect that.

to the fact that the industrial military complex wants this forever wars to keep going on. And that's why they will not settle with Putin and come to an agreement and end the war because all these billions of dollars that are going to Ukraine, they're not going to Ukraine, they're going to the military complex and the Raytheon and Lockheed Martin and Boeing. And that brings us back to here to make you questions why, you know, why is there an interest on the Democrat party to tell us don't go into Rafa?

don't do this and hold back. you know, it's like, it's a feeling like, you know, they don't want this to end. Like they don't want us to just wind crush them, crush us and make this end. They wanted some time to, you know, find like a loophole and extend it here and give them, you know, give them some room. And it's crazy, right?

Yitzy Hammer (36:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

They wanna...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, you're preaching to the choir, I'm with you.

H3rnan (36:30)
Haha.

Let's go back to our personal projects, our passions and tech. Yitzee, what are you looking forward to? What is the whole goal of your mission in Web3? How do you look at the industry moving forward? Especially since we have such, having some brutal months, you know, since I think since May, June.

where we'll be basically doing nothing, going down, chopping downwards. A lot of people already round trip their bags in crypto. It's been like, if you're being holding Bitcoin, it's like, you you probably chill because it's done just nothing. You know, it's been raging, doing that, that 65 to 50 something range. It's just a nothing. So you're pretty chill.

Now, if you've been holding altcoins very heavily like me, like it's more to my, that's your side. Yeah. If you're not round trip your gains, you're probably in a loss and that's a very painful place to be in, especially given that all the signs that we're in this kind of raging bull run that everyone was talking about from October, last October. And now here we are.

Yitzy Hammer (37:31)
I'm sorry for your loss.

H3rnan (37:56)
So what do you think about the scene moving forward? What do you think about it more macro? Because we also saw the Nvidia stock falling, and maybe that's a top for stocks, which is bad for risk assets. What is your take on this? What is your view?

Yitzy Hammer (38:16)
Yeah, I'll tell you. So number one, yeah, I don't get emotional because like you said, like most of my holdings are like in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and they're just kind of like up and down in the same in the same 55 to 65 region and whatever. It's not like I'm not I'm I'm a hodler. So it's it doesn't make a difference to me anyways. That being said,

H3rnan (38:36)
You're not on the chill part. You're on the chill part.

Well done.

Yitzy Hammer (38:44)
Having said I am a service provider in the crypto industry and people's appetite towards paying service providers towards building and launching products that are costly generally fluctuates in accordance with the price of Bitcoin and other digital assets, right? When they have liquidity, they're happy, they want to spend it. And so it does directly affect my livelihood to a certain extent.

The other interesting feature to that is we talked about how great it is to live in Israel and everything. In a sense, I wouldn't say it's all our fault, but we definitely have some impact on where the market is right now. I remember when the NFT market was riding high and I had a lot of clients who were...

just about to launch their NFT projects and like we were already counting the money, know, part of our payment was going to be in like rev share and everything was like everything you launched would turn to gold every 10k project and then and then like f and Putin went ahead and attacked Ukraine and then everything tanked. Okay. And then the only thing you could raise money with was if you were selling NFTs to support Ukraine.

H3rnan (39:47)
Pay me an NFTs

Yitzy Hammer (40:00)
So, you know, this time it's not Putin, it's Iran and they're attacking us and we have the war in Gaza. And I think that that's very much, you know, impact. And, obviously the elections in United States, these things are all impacting the current market conditions, right? The fact that people are, you know, we may or may not be on the brink of

a World War III is definitely affecting the performance of Bitcoin and the S &P and other digital assets as well. I even had one client who went completely ape shit on me because him and the entire market tanked after Iran attacked us back in April. Remember, Iran sent a whole bunch of

H3rnan (40:48)
Yeah, yeah, ballistic missiles.

Yitzy Hammer (40:51)
And so like the next day, like the market completely tanked and he's like, you're in the army. I know that you knew about this and you didn't tell me you're in it with the Iranians to get my token price down so that you could exercise at a better rate. I was like, dude, you are nuts. OK, but I mean, he's you know, he really was off his rocker. But it is true that like we're in we're in the in the Middle East and like

H3rnan (41:04)
What?

You

Yitzy Hammer (41:21)
we're at like the core of like so many, you know, vested interests of like the Western world and the Eastern world and you know, the axis of evil and like we're in the middle. And it's cool. It's cool if you could, if you can get past the stress element.

H3rnan (41:36)
Yeah, and so it's a good word to use. It's a cool way to put it. But let's get then a bit personal, Itzi, because I can say for myself that before October 7th, I was seldom watching the news, if ever, maybe once or something, whatever. If something big happened, then I looked at an article or something.

And I have been very involved, like my Twitter feed is now like also like 70 % now, you know, fighting antisemites and then Jew haters online and it's become 30 % crypto world three. And my focus have been hit, my willingness to actively manage my portfolio, keep track of the projects that, you know, I'm researching.

as well as focusing on my own startup on sound work and running the team and building the product and fixing a bug and testing and running the team and running operations for raising funds. I have been obviously perfectly, like I am severely affected ever since the country, and I cannot even complain because I had no family members.

kidnapped nor murdered on October 7th. So I'm not on the front lines, but I know that you are also doing some service for the army. And I understand that you have also been, we've all been affected, but I think we haven't talked about this, but what has been your personal experience? How has that affected you?

Yitzy Hammer (43:03)
Thank you.

Thank you, thank you for asking. Wow, that's a loaded question. Yeah, so first of all, I think I was probably similar to you like pre -October 7, not a big news listener, care less about what's going on in the news, more focused, I was heavily focused on building my practice.

H3rnan (43:27)
It's a heavy one,

Yitzy Hammer (43:47)
doing that kind of stuff. But yeah, since October 7th, since October 8th, I've been on reserve duty, know, at least 50 % of my time is spent, you know, every week in the the army.

H3rnan (44:04)
If you're not part of the massad, you can tell us what sort of service you're doing.

Yitzy Hammer (44:09)
So I'm an operational legal advisor for one of the divisions that's active in the Gaza Strip. And that means that I advise on operational issues like on military attacks and humanitarian issues and on

H3rnan (44:26)
So for the people watching that are also connected to me through my kind of a pro Israel content that I've also been sharing a lot, I hear a lot of this war crime being thrown around and it's just like Israel's going at it, you know, without any regard for humanitarian international law or whatever. What you're saying now is that your duty

is to advise, sometimes in real time, the army and the IDF if what they're about to do over a certain operation, it complies with international law.

Yitzy Hammer (45:09)
Yes and no. mean, yes, but it's so much more than that. International law is like a very small part of it. is, you know, like the fact that people like me exist at the division level and are, you know, are in place to ensure that we continue to always both abide by

H3rnan (45:13)
Okay.

Yitzy Hammer (45:33)
international, but sometimes you could be abiding by international law and still be a dick. Okay, I can't think of a better way of saying it. There are plenty of things that you could do that are not a violation of international law, but are just not, you know, morally upstanding. The IDF is, is both compliant and like incredibly morally upstanding. So like, we often set standards for ourselves that are even higher than would, you know, that we would then we would have to

in accordance with binding international law. And I'm very, very, proud of the IDF of our country. just don't have the, I mean, you're a real keyboard warrior. Like I see you posting almost on every comment. Like I find it very tiresome, the anti -Israel. But also like it's so ridiculous, like the kind of things that people say about violations of international law and

H3rnan (46:11)
Me too.

Yes.

Yitzy Hammer (46:29)
the genocide, like, give me a fucking break. Like, I can't even talk. I'm not even going to start arguing with you because you're like you're you're you don't have facts. You're not interested in facts. You're interested in spewing hate and and misinformation. And it starts at like the at these like terrorist supporters on the street. And it goes straight up to like CNN and the BBC and Sky News. Like they're they're just spewing misinformation and hatred.

H3rnan (46:42)
Exactly.

Yes.

Yitzy Hammer (46:59)
And the use of these terms, doesn't even warrant a response. many cases, kudos to you for responding.

H3rnan (47:02)
And it all starts by that, that blood libel, which is that word, the mere word genocide. And let's do the following just for the audience. I'm going to clear out two slogans that have been...

Yitzy Hammer (47:21)
I don't want to like deep dive into like international law stuff because like...

H3rnan (47:24)
No, for sure. But there are two slogans that I want to dispel. First is the one that I think we've been carrying on, which is like, the IDF is the most moral army in the world. Let's say the following. Most armies in the world have not been like real tested after October 7th.

Yitzy Hammer (47:42)
I don't know what other armies are doing. I don't know if to say the word, they're most moral, but we're incredibly moral. And we go through so many steps.

H3rnan (47:44)
Exactly. Exactly. And you're still going to have a few cases of some soldiers that go berserk or do stupid shit or upload a TikTok with something offensive. And you're still going to have that.

Yitzy Hammer (47:56)
And it's not right. And it's not right. And the army never hesitates to act immediately to exemplify how wrong it is. And I think that that's also something.

H3rnan (48:11)
And now let's dispel the second slogan, which is the mere word genocide, right? Genocide is just being propagated, but the definition of genocide is like when you're trying to actively

Yitzy Hammer (48:23)
is genocide and ethnic cleansing like these terms. If we wanted to, you know, commit genocide or ethnic cleanse, like we would have been done in a day. Like it would have been the easiest thing ever. I'm saying October 9th, we would have closed out the whole thing. We wouldn't finish with it. Like how could anybody even make those ridiculous claims? Like the fact that we have so many soldiers who have died, they've died because we've done everything in our power not to God forbid do things like

H3rnan (48:32)
a day, it could take less than what we've been talking right now.

Yitzy Hammer (48:52)
genocide or ethnic cleansing. On the contrary, we go to such great extents not to harm innocent civilians, even at the expense of our own soldiers' lives, unfortunately, in some cases. it really, I take great offense and it really hurts my heart when I see people say things like that. Because if it...

H3rnan (49:10)
Yes. And it also perverts the word because in every human history, genocides have been truly brutal. And the genocide that we experienced took out almost two thirds of our population, like 60 something percent of world jury. Rwanda.

Yitzy Hammer (49:25)
right? And there are genocides, like real genocides that are being committed in the world and then and nobody gives a shit. Okay, people just

H3rnan (49:32)
Yeah. And those genocides end up taking out sometimes even 80 or 90 % of that specific ethnicity or population. And the population of Gaza has gone up since 1948, like 600%. They were, think, 60 something thousand and now they're like two million. So you tell me what kind of genocide creates, you know, 600 %?

Yitzy Hammer (49:43)
Red.

I don't know about that. since 1948. Yeah.

H3rnan (50:01)
optic in population.

Yitzy Hammer (50:03)
Don't get me started. And then we could talk about the definition of refugee and it just don't get me started. Honestly, it bores me and it tires me. So I prefer to scroll through anti -democratic party and anti -woke content instead of the anti -is -just.

H3rnan (50:06)
Yes.

Have you encountered professional difficulties because of being an Israeli and Israeli firm dealing with international companies? Web3 is super global, super international. And there's a lot of power and capital coming from Dubai, Saudi Arabia, the Arab countries, and also some countries that are...

not only Middle Eastern, but European, that not all countries are supportive of Israel and have you encounter that within your line of work?

Yitzy Hammer (51:00)
Yeah, I actually have to say like, aside from that one client who, who was angry that I didn't tell him that Iran attacked us. People have been like so incredibly supportive, and not just Jews, like people from all around the world have been supportive of the fact that I'm in Israel, the fact that I'm in reserve duty, like I, you know, have had a few opportunities to go on zoom calls in my uniform, and people are just always like, wow, like,

H3rnan (51:10)
Yeah

Yitzy Hammer (51:29)
more power to you. I'll tell you even more than that, like, whenever I meet people who are, you know, in the military in other countries, in the UK, in the US, they're always like incredibly supportive because they because they know from the inside, like, how, how professional the IDF is and how and what great lengths it goes to not to harm civilians. And so like, they really like, are immediately, you know, very respective and appreciative. So

H3rnan (51:57)
It's a last important fundamental question. us an optimistic late. Let's end up with a high note and an optimistic outlook. Paint us what would a great end of 2024 would look like for you in terms of what happens with crypto? What happens with Web3? What happens with the US elections?

Yitzy Hammer (51:58)
That's why I'm, yeah.

H3rnan (52:25)
How does this all turn out? And how does Beyond the Code grows and DLT Law grows? And how does SoundWorks finally get closest to seed round? Tell us all about this optimistic picture.

Yitzy Hammer (52:35)
I think you just painted it for me. So a great end of 2024 would be going to Singapore with my partners for token 2049 in a week and a bit, hoping to, know, turn up a lot of business there. So that would be, you know, a great success. Hopefully that will be a good trip. We're taking a booth. If anybody's going to be out there, please come and give us a visit.

So hopefully return with a lot of new clientele from Singapore. And hopefully we'll see the partnership grow over the next year. Beyond the Code has been running for a year and a half. We're at 32 episodes. Over the last few couple months, I've been doing an episode a week.

And I hope to continue on that trajectory. I recently launched a YouTube channel, which, you know, I'm still like, kind of learning the ropes with YouTube, not sure how to drum up subscribers. But if you're listening, please hit the subscribe button. I'm beyond the quote, I'm looking to grow, you know, my following there to date, like it's been mostly. Of course, I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. It would be great to to see Trump in the White House.

H3rnan (53:39)
It applies for this pot of stew, guys.

Yitzy Hammer (53:50)
And to see normalization with Saudi Arabia and with other Arab nations in the region, it would be great to have sound work, you know, have a very successful raise. And that way I could finally get paid. And to see the team grow and the product launch. It would be great to see your crypto builder, creators podcasts growing.

H3rnan (54:09)
It's due.

Yitzy Hammer (54:18)
from here and also to consistently be posting week after week. And it would be great to see Bitcoin at like three to five million dollars. You know, just,

H3rnan (54:25)
That's that's a, yeah, that's not a shabby outlook.

Yitzy Hammer (54:32)
And it would be great for my for my kids to have, you know, successful years at school. got one. I've got an eighth grader and a sixth grader and a second grader. And my daughter is in her last year of preschool. So I'm wishing them a successful year.

H3rnan (54:48)
And hopefully when our kids grow up, I also have a seven year old and a two year old. Our wish and our mission is that for them when they grow up and turn 18, hopefully we don't need this network service.

Yitzy Hammer (55:05)
That's not gonna happen. They used to say that when I was a kid. Like, hopefully when you're older, you won't have to go to the army. I'm being realistic. We live in the Middle East. I just, think we're gonna get more and more.

H3rnan (55:13)
Yeah.

You're discounting AI, you know, we can get good at AI and do the let the AI do the fighting.

Yitzy Hammer (55:23)
I'm a realist man. Hopefully, I don't entertain the ideas that my kids won't have to go to the army, but hopefully they'll have a quiet army service where we're only on the, continue to protect our country and don't have to go on the offensive. Insha 'Allah, yeah.

H3rnan (55:41)
Inshallah or Amen for

Yitzy Hammer (55:46)
We're just entering, you know, yesterday was Rosh Chodesh Elo. We're entering into the last month before the new Jewish, Jewish New Year, beginning of the Jewish New Year. I'm

H3rnan (55:49)
Yes.

Rosh Hashanah... Where are you spending Rosh Hashanah?

Yitzy Hammer (56:01)
army. At least part of it, you know, I'm there every other weekend, pretty much. it's, it's, it's, it's, it. Yeah, like, in a sense. But I also, I'm a Hazan, you know, so I, yeah, yeah, so I always, when I, know, I love

H3rnan (56:02)
Really?

Right. Well, it's sort of family too.

Really? I didn't know that!

The chazan for our international choir is the one that sings the prayer, right?

Yitzy Hammer (56:27)
Right, right. say a canter. sing the prayers and Yom Kippur and Rosh Chana. So I, yeah.

H3rnan (56:33)
Dude, full of talents on these closed talents.

Yitzy Hammer (56:39)
You want a really wild one? also doing a course now to be a sopher to write Sefer Torah. So Torah scrolls. now, yeah, I've starting with Megillah first. So that would be another thing that I wish to myself that I, you know, successfully write a first Megillah and it comes out good.

H3rnan (56:47)
You can do the misuzah for the house?

Alright.

Well, Yitsi, listen up. I want to thank you so much. First and foremost for your friendship, for helping us out, of course, in building my own project, my own dreams, for kicking my butt and to coming back to the podcast and giving me new energies to bring this back. was, of course, know, it was...

Yitzy Hammer (57:28)
I love schmoozing with you man. We should do it more often.

H3rnan (57:30)
Yes, yes, yes. it was, we did, should, we should, we're to do it more probably in Beyond the Code for episode two. And thank you so much for being here. And I think it was a good one. I think what a great comeback episode. What do you think?

Yitzy Hammer (57:47)
Yeah, I guess, like I said, I enjoyed it. And I love when it free flows, you know, I hate the like, please send me questions ahead of our, of our episode I want to prepare for. If you're preparing, man, then I don't want you on my podcast. Like, it's got to be chill. People feel it, you know, people feel it if it's scripted. I don't like it.

H3rnan (57:52)
Yes.

Yes, yes, and exactly, exactly. Are you having a conversation or are you reading a script?

Yitzy Hammer (58:12)
I've never I never read a script. never you know, I even I tried once to do like a little like intro at the beginning where I read a script, but I couldn't I couldn't do it. It needs to come from the heart. I also don't like and I'm sorry if I'm insulting you people out there. I don't like when people ask me to come on the podcast like it's I've had two episodes where people asked me if if if they could come on as a guest and I haven't enjoyed either of them. I don't feel like they come out good like it just like it's got a

H3rnan (58:22)
He does.

Yitzy Hammer (58:41)
It's gotta like, it's gotta flow, yeah. It can't be it can't be propped or, don't like, also like, I take insult whenever like, I speak to conferences and they offer the ability to have sponsored speaking slots. Like, if somebody's paying you to speak at their conference, like, then what they have to say can't be all that good. So, I don't wanna be paid, I don't wanna pay.

H3rnan (58:42)
Yeah, it's gotta flow, mate. It's gotta flow.

Mmm.

Right. Yes, it's generally going to be a pitch.

Yitzy Hammer (59:07)
It's gotta be natural. Anyways, thank you for this. This has been great.

H3rnan (59:15)
Yes, for sure. This has been awesome. And have a great time in Singapore. I don't think I'll be joining, but...

Yitzy Hammer (59:21)
Thank you. Don't say that yet. Things might change. You never know. If anybody's out there is looking to sponsor Hernan's trip to Singapore for Token 2049, I'm happy to find him a place to crash on my hotel room floor, although I've already offered that space to somebody else, but it can be fun. He just needs you to sponsor his flight and his ticket for Token, and you'll have the opportunity and all the jazz.

H3rnan (59:27)
Yeah, I feel...

Yes.

Yeah, and get us a booth for sound work, speaking spot, and all the proper stuff.

Yitzy Hammer (59:50)
You'll have what we say in Israel, we say you have Shlish Gan Eden. So you'll have a hand in bringing sound work to fruition and that will be like Shlish Gan Eden. and tokens for sure, you can have tokens. So sponsorship opportunities, you can reach out to me. And if you're looking to connect with me,

H3rnan (59:55)
Yes.

Yes, and some tokens.

Yitzy Hammer (1:00:16)
I at ijhammer on Twitter and Telegram and generally most active on LinkedIn where I'm Yitzy Hammer, Y -I -T -Z -Y Hammer. And if you're looking to listen to Beyond the Code, it's BYND the code on Twitter, on YouTube, on Spotify. And yeah.

H3rnan (1:00:38)
All right, that was a great episode. That was a plug and that's a part.

Yitzy Hammer (1:00:45)
Awesome man. You can start the recording. But it was fun, bro. I had a lot I hope you're okay.

H3rnan (1:00:46)
All right. Yes.

Wait a I stopped.

Hernan Arber (1:00:54)
You're listening to the Web3 Creators Podcast, where we speak to the brightest minds and builders in crypto, DeFi, NFTs, and the metaverse. Our goal is to give you the absolute best tools for building a thriving business in the Web3 space. Now, here's your host, Hernan Arver. Let's start creating.